career

'I spoke about "that guy" in the workplace. Then came the messages.'

This column was originally written in the Outlouders newsletter. Sign up here to read all the issues. 

Gregg Wallace is a man that you might not have heard about… but he's currently making headlines everywhere. He's been the presenter of MasterChef and Celebrity MasterChef UK for close to 20 years and he's making headlines because of his alleged offensive-yet-not-criminal behaviour in the workplace.

The 60-year-old TV personality has been accused of "inappropriate sexual behaviour" including jokes, "groping" and remarks towards women he works with on the show.

His initial defence (for which he subsequently apologised) was that his accusers were, "a handful of middle-class women of a certain age".

He has now stepped down from his role while production company Banijay UK investigates these claims.

When we talked about Gregg Wallace on the Mamamia Out Loud podcast, I was horrified but sadly not surprised by the response from our listeners. We heard a range of horrifying stories from women who've had to endure working with "that guy" in their workplaces, too.

Listen to Em Vernem and Holly Wainwright talk about "that guy" on the Mamamia Out Loud podcast. Post continues below.

"That guy" is the person you work with who hasn't exactly done anything criminal, but they make you feel extremely uncomfortable every single time they open their mouths. You try to avoid them at all costs, and according to some of the stories we've heard, it can be difficult to know when to report their behaviour because what they're doing isn't technically illegal.

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For this one, I think it's only fair that I go first. I originally shared my story about "that guy" on the podcast where I talked about an unfavourable man I used to work with at another workplace.

This guy toed the line between "he's so funny" and "I can't stand him." Depending on who he was talking to, you'd find yourself in either camp — I was very much in the latter.

He was constantly taking digs at me and another male coworker about how close we were (we weren't). My male coworker was showing us his wedding photos and after seeing a photo of his wife, "that guy" looked at the photo, then looked at me and said, "Oh I get it now."

What he "got" was finding out that my coworker married a woman of colour. And yep, you guessed it— I'm also a woman of colour. What happened next was genuine laughter from some of my coworkers mixed with uncomfortable laughter from other coworkers and a sick feeling from me. He still works there to this day and that's not even the worst thing he said.

Watch: Pregnancy discrimination in the workplace. Post continues below.


Video via Youtube Carla D. Aikens, P.C
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Dealing with "that guy".

Here are the worst stories about "that guy" we've come across…

"My old boss told me that I was unreliable now that I had a child, and maybe they would give me the promotion I had been promised for four years once my child was in school. I reported him to HR and they sent him for additional management training. The funny thing about that guy is that he honestly thought he was a nice guy."

"My old boss commented to me on my first day back at work after I lost my baby during childbirth, 'See, your tits have disappeared.' He knew all about what had happened but, apparently, that was the only thing he could think of saying."

"I was in a morning meeting with the most senior executive men of my high-profile organisation when one of those men commented to a senior female colleague on the phone in another state. She mentioned she had just returned from an early morning walk, to which he quipped with a smirk: 'So are you in your Lorna Janes? Quick as a flash, another female colleague in the room for a briefing said: "Hey, that's sexist, you can't say that!" You should have seen the look on his face being called out by a female many rungs lower than him."

"About 15 years ago, I had a CEO once say to me... 'I hope you're not planning on getting knocked up like your predecessor did!'"

"I was about 22 and was being offered a promotion. The CEO wanted to first check whether I was planning on getting pregnant. This is almost 20 years ago, but it was still the most shocking promotion-related discussion in my career to date."

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"I get told to 'smile more' by older men regularly. They don't like it when I tell them that it's sexist. I fight back every time and then walk away. I used to be intimidated by older men, now I don't give a single f**k about how many men I upset."

"'I reckon everyone in this place thinks we're together'… said by a boss of mine when we were at a café. He was old enough to be my dad!"

"I was away at a work conference and one male colleague followed me to my hotel room and then did a 'knock and dash' multiple times late at night. He also kept telling everyone else at the conference my room number. This was in addition to the usual speaking over me, cutting me off and discounting my contributions. Conversations with other colleagues revealed this is not the first time he has been 'that guy' and it's well known within the company. How do these guys have so many chances?"

Exactly. How do they?

What to do when you experience inappropriate behaviour.

I spoke to Mamamia's People & Culture team, Nicolle Stuart and Yvette Bay for their insights.

Nicolle recommends that if you experience inappropriate behaviour, you raise it with your HR department immediately.

"There are official protocols that complaints go through and each industry will have a policy or process that must be followed, including an investigation. These situations can be difficult because they often require going through formal channels and sometimes people aren't comfortable making formal complaints," she explained.

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Yvette flagged that even if you lodge a formal complaint against someone, you might not find out the outcome.

"One of the hardest parts of an investigation is that HR can't always tell the person who made the complaint exactly what happened to the person they reported. Confidentiality means we might investigate thoroughly, but the person who raised the issue won't know the specific outcomes/consequences. What's important is addressing the behaviour, even if the complainant can't see all the steps behind the scenes," Yvette said.

"[The stories above] aren't just inappropriate, they are also damaging. Employees experiencing persistent uncomfortable behaviour need to feel safe reporting it. HR's role in that is also aiming to create psychological safety at work. So believing employees, documenting any patterns of behaviour, then escalating, so actions are taken."

Nicolle added: "All employers are required to provide a safe workplace for their employees, and this behaviour threatens that safety and is therefore unacceptable. If you are making complaints, and they're not resolved, then you can escalate them outside of the business but also question whether you want to work at a place that doesn't take your safety seriously, as it's a symptom of a much broader cultural issue."

If you want more from Emily Vernem, you can follow her on Instagram @emilyvernem or sign up to receive the Outlouders newsletter that she writes every Saturday.

Feature image: Canva.

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