'Hannah Clarke was my best friend. I made sexist jokes with the man who killed her.'

This story discusses domestic violence.

One of Dave Kramer's most vivid memories of Aaliyah, Laianah and Trey was hearing their excited voices scream, "Dave's here!", as he drove into the gym, owned by their parents, Hannah Clarke and Rowan Baxter.

After working out with Hannah and Baxter, Dave would scoop one child up under each arm, as the other clung on to his back, all three insisting on being carried to the car before heading home for the day.

"The kids always wanted to play tag, so I'd chase them around, while I was setting up the equipment for our workout," Dave told Mamamia.

"For years, this was a standard Saturday or Sunday afternoon."

Dave met Baxter—the man who would ultimately murder his wife, Hannah, and their three children in a horrific act of gendered violence—back in 2013.

Watch: Hannah Clarke's family talk about the abuse. Article continues after the video.

"I worked with one of his mates, and we started training together," Dave says. The gym was co-owned by Baxter and his then-wife Hannah, and the three became firm friends. Over time, Dave's friendship with Hannah grew closer.

"We were the same age, while Baxter was 10 years older than us, and we were similar in fitness levels, so we did some pairs competitions together," says Dave. By 2018, Dave considered Hannah one of his best friends. But he often spent time with Baxter too.

To Dave, Baxter came across as an insecure man, spitting the dummy if he was beaten in a workout, despite how infrequently that occurred.

"He wouldn't talk to me," says Dave. "It was rare [that I beat him], but if I did it, he would not be happy. I just thought he was an insecure person."

Dave Kramer is now a keynote speaker and anti-domestic violence advocate. Image: Supplied.

"I was contributing without even knowing it."

Nothing could have prepared Dave for the news he received on the morning of February 19, 2020.

Rowan Baxter had quietly waited for Hannah outside her parents' home. The 31-year-old strapped her three children into their car seats, ready for the morning school run. But they never made it. Instead, Baxter ambushed Hannah, doused his family in petrol, and set them alight. The children died in the car. Hannah later died in hospital from her injuries.

Hannah had recently ended her marriage to Baxter, and had taken refuge at her parents' home. An inquest would later reveal Baxter had stalked Hannah in the months after she left him, and had engaged in prolonged coercive and controlling behaviour throughout their marriage.

In hindsight, the signs were there. At the time though, Baxter's casual sexism and derogatory attitude towards women didn't seem all that shocking to Dave. Down-putting jokes are par for the course in Australian culture. Sexist jokes are too.

While Dave could never have predicted or prevented Baxter's horrific actions, looking back, he believes his own actions enabled the underlying beliefs that ultimately led to the murders.

"I was contributing without even knowing it," says Dave, who admits to making sexist jokes and objectifying women alongside Baxter.

"I can understand that people think jokes are just jokes… But the belief that sits under the derogatory comments is that women are less than men. I didn't realise the power of these attitudes until I walked alongside women who'd experienced violence."

While Dave knows he's not responsible for Hannah's murder, he holds himself accountable for the things he did and didn't do, which allowed Baxter to feel entitled to do what he did.

"We know not all men who make, or even laugh at, sexist comments, will take the steps that [Baxter] took, but the fact remains, all men who take those steps get permission from sexism," Dave says.

"Underlying beliefs that women are objects, they are possessions—I was contributing to that… by making comments like 'don't play like a girl', or 'don't be a pussy'."

Complicating matters further, is the subconscious blaming of women for their own abuse.

"Whenever Baxter would verbally abuse Hann I would ask myself, 'why does she put up with that?', rather than asking myself the more important questions, 'why is he so abusive?', and more than that, 'why am I not holding him accountable, and instead making excuses for him?'."

Dave Kramer is working towards changing men's belief. Image: Supplied.

Shifting men's beliefs.

Dave was at the gym when he first received a message asking if he'd heard what Baxter had done. At first, Dave assumed he'd hurt himself. When he discovered what really happened, that Baxter had murdered his entire family, Dave's mental health plummeted.

"I took some of the blame on myself," he says. For two years, he couldn't work, and knew he could never return to the fitness industry.

While he was studying a degree in psychology, Dave began researching and learning about gendered violence, becoming particularly interested in violence prevention.

"That's when I was introduced to the MATE Bystander program, (designed to teach people how to recognise abuse and have the confidence to speak out and help)," he says.

"As I got to know more people, I decided I wanted to hold conversations more broadly."

Now a behavioural scientist, keynote speaker, and an ambassador and education facilitator for the Small Steps for Hannah Foundation, Dave pioneered the HALT program — a research-based, age-appropriate approach to respectful relationships education.

"The concept of the program is for young people to navigate a really difficult world to contribute to the safety of themselves and others," says Dave, who will also deliver the program.

Designed for students in years 7 to 12, the program helps young people define safety, deconstruct beliefs, and ultimately influence change, while ensuring they maintain their own agency throughout the process.

"When I did the focus groups, young people said they're often told what to do, but not how to do it.

"There's no real insight on what to do to contribute to a safe relationship."

Ultimately, the program aims to teach young people how to not be a bystander, but build a path towards safety, while shifting some attitudes throughout the process.

Good men must do more.

On Sunday, Dave joined a walk against domestic and family violence, organised by Liberty Domestic and Family Violence Specialist Services, in Port Macquarie on the NSW Mid North Coast.

"Fellas, we can no longer stay silent in our groups," he told a crowd of 500 during an address prior to the walk.

"You have chosen to hold men accountable to sexist and degrading comments that we hear on a daily basis.

"Every contribution that is made to a sexist culture is a contribution to a belief system that has that man feel he is entitled to abuse, assault, control or even murder the women we love."

"Don't sit back, like I did in fact, and say, 'It's not my problem, it's none of my business', because at the rate of men's violence we are seeing in this country right now, it may soon be your business."

"I saw myself in the problem."

Earlier this year, Dave delivered a powerful address at one of several anti-gendered violence rallies held across Australia, thanks to What Were You Wearing?. At the Brisbane rally, Dave spoke honestly and vulnerably about his own experience, while sharing his learnings about masculinity, and how even good men may contribute to the gendered violence crisis, despite good intentions.

"When I learned that there was a link between sexism and violence against women, I didn’t want to believe it, because I saw myself in the problem," he said.

"The reality is, without accountability, men will always feel entitled to abuse, control, assault, and murder women."

Dave said the normalisation of sexism in language that degrades, devalues, and dehumanises women, offers men all the permission they need to maintain the belief that "women are inferior".

"I know if there were a woman here right now being physically assaulted by a man, every man here would do something to stop it. But we cannot do that, and then hang out with our mates while making sexist, degrading, and dehumanising comments about women in general conversation.

"We cannot have both. Because so long as this sexist and misogynistic culture that currently pervades our country is thriving, women will continue dying at the hands of men."

Dave urged men to hold their mates accountable to comments that degrade and dehumanise women, "in your locker room, your boardroom, your pub, and wherever it is that you and your boys hang out.

"Take a leaf out of Hann’s book and be courageous. Remind yourself of a woman you love every time you hold a man accountable, because I promise you, her life and her safety depend on it."

For more information about the HALT program, click here.

If this has raised any issues for you, or if you just feel like you need to speak to someone, please call 1800 RESPECT (1800 737 732)—the national sexual assault, domestic and family violence counselling service.

Mamamia is a charity partner of RizeUp Australia, a national organisation that helps women, children and families move on after the devastation of domestic and family violence. Their mission is to deliver life-changing and practical support to these families when they need it most. If you would like to support their mission you can donate here.

Feature image: Supplied.

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